29ers in the Wiss

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embudo
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29ers in the Wiss
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What do people think about 29 vs 26 wheels for riding in the Wiss? Somehow I've never stopped to notice how many people are riding 29ers (esp. FS 29ers) in the Wiss. My vague impression is not many, but I could be way wrong.

I've only been riding here the past month or so, mostly on a 29" full suspension specialized camber. Last week I picked up a used 26" full suspension Santa Cruz Blur LT (slacker head angle, more suspension travel) to do a sort of long-term demo to see which I like better. I've only had the Blur out a couple times so far with all the rain, but am starting to form some early impressions (it sure is easier to get through that one tight hairpin turn, for example).

Anyway, if others have thought about this, or even better compared 26er and 29er bikes here, I'd be interested in knowing how you thought the advantages/disadvantages of each played out here in the park.  I've read a lot of shouting matches over at MTBR about 26 vs 29, so I know the party line on what each does better, but its hard to tell what kind of trails those people are riding -- great for 3 hour climbs or smooth open trails or 8 foot drops doesn't mean much here.

Thoughts?

chunter
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I can only offer my very

I can only offer my very limited opinion on this.  I ride a heavy SC Bullit with Fox 36/DHX shock normally back there.  And yes, it is slow on the climbs, but the bike is much more capable on the rocky downs similar to a blur but even more burly.  My average speed would be faster on a 29er for sure, they're just so much easier to pedal up hill on average and they maintain higher speeds on the flats sections.  However, my bike absolutely owns rock gardens and sections with any amount of steps.  On a 29er FS you can get a similar effect and roll faster.  It all depends where you want to get your thrills.  I don't think flying down the steps on the indian or GCC would be much fun on a hard tail 29er myself, or sitting in any rocky sections. 

Bottom line, there is no one bike that does everything awesome.  You can't have it every way at the same time.  This is why I have a downhill bike, a free ride bike and eventually a hard tail 29er for smooth fast flowy riding like white clay.  It costs about 12k (3+ complete bikes) to have enough bikes to cover the spectrum of trails and conditions to have the right bike for most riding areas.  If I had to pick one bike for your average rider to get for the Wiss though, it would be a 4" 29er probably with slightly more aggressive tires like Nevegals or similar.

IMO IMO

Anytime...

bonkers
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both!

I'm with Hunter on this one- I have 2 of the 3 bikes (missing that DH/FR one still). I generally use a giant reign for everything but there is advantages to having a 29er on fast & smooth singletrack areas like White Clay, Fairhill, or the stuff at Allegrippis. I ride my HT29er sparingly for the most part but it's nice to have for these areas especially climbing. I've rode my 29er at French Creek quite a bit & definitely noticed I'm faster on the climbs but I suffer on the downhills there. 

For Wiss, I like my reign for group riding just b/c I think I have better control on the downs w/it. But if I'm solo or know I'll be riding slower (like with the dog) I'll use my 29er.

bomb hills.. not people.

embudo
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I'm too old for any hardtail,

I'm too old for any hardtail, regardless the wheel size, on terrain like the Wiss. For me, the only choice is between 26 FS and 29 FS.

thunderthighs
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In your case, I'd go with a

In your case, I'd go with a FS 29er then.  It gives the advantage of big wheels and has the suspension.  The debate, until a couple of years ago, was always HT 29er vs FS 26 but now there are a handful of FS 29er bikes.  If I had to do it with one bike and one bike only, the FS 29er seems to make sense for all the area trails.  As it is, I am working toward having the whole armamentarium because, well, bikes are just cool and the more the merrier. 

I live for singletrack!

Jamac
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  I didn't enjoy riding the

 

I didn't enjoy riding the Wiss when I had a 26" ht. After I got a FS 29er I was in love.

My HiFi seems to like it wants to climb at a faster speed and required me getting into better shape.

The gearing on my 26" let me ride up a hill at the speed of a turtle when I was tired.

That's been about the difference for me.

 

Middle-Aged Mou...
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In skiing, the

In skiing, the tongue-in-cheek defintion of All Mountain Skis is: A term for skis designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain. It's an exaggeration but it makes the point.  Some idea applies to mountain bikes.

In skiing there's another equivalent term, if you have several pair of skis, it called a quiver, a pair for ice, a pair for powder, a pair for everyday use. Same idea here.

 

jayres6
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opinions are like belly buttons....

This question is becomming one of the hottest topics out there for sure.  If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 different responses.  I think the bottom line is you need to find what works best for you and your riding style.  If you can afford multiple bikes, that is great, but most of us have one "good bike" and if your lucky you might have a beater  that you can pull out in an emergency.

So, I'd say ride a variety of bikes and see what you like best.  I've been riding in the wiss for years on a 26HT with no complaints.  This year I've made the switch to 29HT and I love it.  A few weeks ago I demo'd a specialized epic 29er, and it was amazing too!

A good friend of mine who races expert just got a new bike as well, and after trying a bunch of bikes, he stuck with the 26FS.  He just thought it suited him best and he likes the way it rides.

bottom line is you need to find what you like, and how that matches up with where you do most of your riding.  It should bring a smile to your face, and that's what is importantLaughing

as a side note, I think more and more hardtails that I see in the park are becomming 29er.  FS is a mixed bag of both, but I think the trend is heading towards 29er too.

good luck in your discovery process.  Take your time and get what you like best.

dieselkarl
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I've been very happy with a

I've been very happy with a 4" travel FS 29er (Ventana El Capitan) for the past 3 years as my go to bike.  When Blue Mt. opened up it's lift served trails, the 29er platform worked up there but not as well as a burlier, slacker angled 26" bike did.  For Wiss and anywhere else that's not exclusively steep and very technical terrain, I'm very satisfied with 29er full squish. 

That being said, some pedal uphill more efficiently than others and there've been some really well thought out linkage systems.  My Ventana is very dependent on platform dampening in the shock to climb well.  I demo-ed a Pivot 429 at Dirtfest - really efficient climber but Allegrippis isn't rocky/rooty enough to give it a fair evaluation against my current ride. 

"Metal captain, this cat is asking
if I've seen his bitter lost passion."
I told him "yeah, but only when I pedal
past her"
-Aesop Rock

Jay
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26 v. 29

This is definitely a hot topic.  I have geared and SS 29er hardtails and a 6.5" travel all mountian 26er.  I'm often torn about what to ride in the Wiss.  There's no doubt that the slacker, heavier all mountain rig is best for Blue or Spring and rougher, more DH oriented trails, and that the 29er HT is best for smooth fast trails like White Clay.  Since the Wiss is in between these extremes, neither bike is perfect: the 29er HT climbs better but is rougher on techy decents.  The 26er AM bike is great on the decents, but rough on the climbs.  I usually end up opting for the 29er, because it climbs so much better, but my aging ass often protests the lack of suspension.

There's no question the 29ers roll faster than the 26ers.  But, while the 29ers also handle small obstacles and trail chatter better than a 26er, the big wheels aren't a replacement for good rear suspension.  An FS 29er may be a good solution.  I think for the more DH-type stuff, a burly 26er would retain superiority, but for everything else, a FS 29er with a light setup my be the ideal option.  Damn, did I just talk myself into another bike?

chunter
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I meant 29er FS is best

I meant 29er FS is best option for the average rider, not SS 29er.  SS 29er is probably the fastest bike though on average if you're willing to stand up in the rough stuff.

Anytime...

bonkers
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69er

wonder how this would do in Wiss.. or anywhere else for that matter.. I think Trek's stopped this model though.

 

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/bikes/29er/trek/69er/PRD_415867_1548crx.aspx

bomb hills.. not people.

fishnchips
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I like my HT 29er and the way

I like my HT 29er and the way it rolls. It feels much like an FS 26er on logs and steps, until you get to a rock  garden or obstacle where you could really use an FS, and the you're quickly reminded that it's not an FS.

I began riding a softail 29er, which I feel is really the best all around option for speed and ability to deal with some basic technical. Though you give up some of the the efficiency of the HT, the 1" or so of rear travel is just enough to take the edge off my older bones

29ers in general have a better attack angle and just roll over things that much easier. (If they made a 31er I'd be riding it!). But they also stick to the ground a bit more with more surface area, and if you can roll a larger volume tire, at low pressure, ideally tubeless, you end up with a feeling of of more suspension. So chainstay width might be important as if you can only fit a 2.1, and you get an HT, that will equal a bit more pain for the older heavier rider.

More surface area grabs the trail with large volume tires, on a 29er, and more grip. There's a lot of variables to this, but what's sometimes hard to comprehend is that lower pressure often means less rolling resistance on trail terrain. The rougher the terrain, the lower pressure, the less the rolling resistance. The smoother the terrain, the more pressure you want, however, even then you want less than you think. . It's the opposite of the road. You just go faster with lower pressure as the tires don't bounce inefficiently off the rabble of the trail (compared to pavement).

If I had a first choice in a bike right now it would be a FS 29er. Maybe the Ellsworth Evolve. The Salsa Spearfish is probably where I'm aiming though, coming in a $2250 for a decently spec'd and reviewed FS 29er. For my average mileage I think an XC FS 29er would be great for training, and I'd keep my HT for racing and Middle Run.

But another choice would be the Moots titanium soft tail 29er. I'd still be riding a soft tail if I hadn't destroyed my previous frames. But the Moots is a premium bike and I reckon it would suit me fine. There are a number of other 29er soft tails on the market and maybe one of them would be a good 'compromise' bike for you.

Recently, after 4 years, I rode a FS 26er that was super squishy. It was like a cruise ship! Super comfy and super sluggish! I really enjoyed the comfort though... FS 29er probably offers the best all around ability and comfort, so for me that would probalby take precedence over even the softail.  

 

Riggs
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wiss riding 29er vs 26er

I've been a devotee to my 26 Trek fs bike for some time. This past weekend at DirtFest I burnt up my legs at the end of day two and then demo'd a Gary Fisher fs top-of-the-line carbon 29er for day three. The 29er provided much needed relief on the climbs.  The longer wheelbase was noticable right away and the seating position was more comfortable. This has to be the Barcalounger of bikes, far removed from my responsive short wheelbase fs 26 bike.

I cut my teeth in the Wiss on my fs 26" bike and it has been fine for me here and elsewhere. Occasionally I would ride with a 29er who would pass me up the hills, but I enjoy the rough and more technical sections anyhow, and good flowy momentum when it's available is always good no matter what type of bike you're riding.

I've never been a bike parts bling junkie, and only have room for one bike.  Sure, if I was willing to sell my two sets of 26" wheels along with my frame and get a decent amount for it, I might change to a 29er, but for right now, I'm going with what I have.  I'm satisfied with the idea that I will still nail the rough trail sections and roll over whatever is out there, without the need for a larger wheel and still climb that hill regardless. I bought a fs 26" with 4 inch of travel and it's been good, very good, and it seems that where ever I ride and with whom ever I'm riding with,  it's always about how well you know the trails, and more importantly, how good your innate skill levels are along with that critical "time in the saddle factor".  Peace. Ride on!

guswalls
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it's your choice

i hated my 26" hardtail in the wiss. it probably didn't fit me too well being 6'2" with long limbs. i love my 29" hardtail. fits me so much better. my skills have improved and i feel much better after riding it.

    i have only demoed a 29" fs as my only ride on a full suspension bike. i would say ride both bikes, then come to your own conclusion as this will be the only validation anyway.

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