Log feature removal & FOW

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embudo
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Log feature removal & FOW
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One of my favorite features in the park, a log ride on Demo 1, was recently removed. I contacted FOW by email to ask what they knew about the removal, and I got a prompt and thoughtful response from Maura McCarthy, the FOW executive director.

Ms. McCarthy knew what I was referring to. She said the log (which she said was installed by FOW volunteers 2 years ago) was removed by a Parks employee who decided that it had been modified (I'm guessing this refers to the rock ramp up to it, but Ms. McCarthy did not specify) and the whole thing should go. FOW did not find out until it was removed. She said FOW crew leaders are considering whether/how to replace/repair, subject to permission from Parks and Rec. She said she couldn't give an estimate of how long this process will take.

She also stated that FOW's general policy is that technical features are "not needed," but that they make exceptions for features which slow riders, improve drainage, and otherwise benefit multiple uses, and which are authorized by Parks & Rec. The log in question had been one of the exceptions. She said Parks & Rec also is generally opposed to technical features but they're big so there is a broader range of views there.

That was the gist of her response to me.

embudo
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For what its worth, here is

For what its worth, here is my response to Ms. McCarthy of FOW:

"I appreciate your thoughtful and informative response to my inquiry.

"I earnestly hope that FOW will decide to seek repair/replacement of the log feature in question and will advocate against removal of the small handful of similar features located elsewhere in the park. In my view, those features are an important feature of diverse trail usage for many of the reasons you state. Further, such features play an indispensable role in broadening the appeal of the trails beyond speed-oriented cross country riding to include other mountain bikers who are more interested in enjoying the trails at a more casual, more hiker-friendly pace. In other words, the more optional technical features are available -- and by "optional" I mean features that riders and other users are free to bypass --  the slower the mountain bikers will go.  Maintaining and encouraging diversity of ridership benefits non-mountain users of the park as well, and preserving technical features is a critical component of that.

"The technical features serve another valuable function for the park as well. I, like many other riders in the far-from-monolithic MTB community, am firmly opposed to unauthorized trail building in the park, but my impression is that a desire for more challenging trails and features is a primary (likely the primary) impetus behind such activity. Removal of the limited number of existing authorized technical features strikes me as a sure-fire recipe for exacerbating the renegade trail building problem. I'm not defending that and I'm certainly not advocating it, but I see no benefit to ignoring that reality.

"All of that said, benefit to other park users is not the only standard that should apply here.  I know from personal observation that mountain bikers make up an enormous proportion of trail usership (and, I assume, a non-trivial proportion of FOW membership).  Qualities that improve mountain bike park users' experience are intrinsically valuable irrespective of whether they also improve other park users' experiences.  Of course this is especially true as to features, such as the log feature in question, situated aside the trail and thus no impediment to hiker/runner/horseback usage.

"Speaking from a more individual perspective, those handful of technical features are precisely what make those trails the amazing resource they are for me and many riders like me. Those technical features are what put a huge smile on my face every time I use the park. Losing that log feature was genuinely distressing, and the thought of losing more is depressing.

"I hope FOW will push for prompt replacement of the log feature in question, will oppose removal of any similar features, and ultimately will reconsider its general opposition to technical features.

Thank you again for your consideration of this matter."

chunter
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Thanks for following up with

Thanks for following up with Maura on this, it was a good response.  I hope we can get it replaced with something else equally fun.

Hunter

Anytime...

embudo
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The parks staffer who removed

The parks staffer who removed the log was so zealous about it that s/he steamrolled the log right over a ~12 foot tall tree to get it further down the bank. I wonder if the tree will survive. Its certainly  leaning over now at an unhealthy angle. Kind of amazing.

Re-reading Ms. McCarthy's email, I can't tell whether the parks staffer destroyed the log because s/he didn't realize it was an authorized feature or because s/he decided that modification of the log (which I take to refer to the rock ramp up to the log, but again that's just my guess) warranted destruction of the entire log feature.

I wonder whether PMBA can play a role in helping to ensure that parks employees (and FOW folks who have the same policy of removing unauthorized features on sight) know which technical features are authorized.

jayres6
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double standard?

I'm not trying to start a firestorm here, but it seems like there is a bit of a double standard here.

If it's ok for a Park's employee to destroy features that are obvously build and established (that log ride has been there for a long time), what's the point of all these advocacey groups that aid in controlling what is in the park?  Are they authorized to just do whatever they want in the park?  seems to defeat any voice that trail users have in the park.

If we (pmba, mountain bikers, whoever) were to build a feature that was not authorized, I feel like we would be crucified for it.

I'm not a log-ride kind of guy, but it just seems a little fishy to me, and I know a lot of people really enjoy those features.  I'm gratefull for the miles and miles of trails we have, but it's frustrating when it seems like someone can go rogue like that and it's no big deal, but if we did the same they'd be trying to kick us out off the park.

It's quite possible that I don't understand the dynamics of the situation, but this is just how it seems to me with my limited knowledge of the process.

Kellyann
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PPR Land-Owners

I can understand the confusion & frustration regarding trail work in Philadelphia (especially the Wissahickon).

To provide some background PPR (Philadelphia Parks & Recreation) are the land owners of the all parks in Philadelphia including the Wissahickon.  FOW are the Land Managers of the Wissahickon.  There are also many advocacy groups within the Wissahickon that works towards there own objective (with proper approval).

IMO the FOW has the most say within the Wissahickon, this is because they have a dedicate staff, resources & funds to support the needed work.  All work, regardless if performed by an advocacy group or not needs to be approved by the proper channels; these channels usually includes PPR (in Wissahickon that is district 3), FOW, & the advocacy group trail leaders.  The work is then schedule for trail days.  Historically the approvals were vague & they did not outline a clear cut written approval process; my understanding is that the organizations involved are trying to make the approval process clearer.  Illegal trail work (of any kind) should not be done by any user group & is not tolerated by the Land Owner (PPR) or the Land Manager (FOW).  PMBA has a clear code of conduct COC which all BOD members signed that states that no member of the BOD will participate in any illegal trail building.

My opinion, based upon Maura’s response, was that PPR saw illegal trail work being completed & removed the log feature to stop the illegal trail work.  Could it have been handled differently certainly, but this is a clear view of why no user should be building illegally; as it could end with us losing something that is well liked.   

Please try to remember that PPR are the land owners, and as so their work is not considered rogue.  Rogue trail work was done on a feature & the land manager took action against the rogue trail work.

Also, last year PMBA trail work days were suspended in the Wissahickon (please see archival form postings for more information); that suspension is hindering us in partnering w/ FOW within the Wissahickon in future processes.

Also PMBA does not support or endorse any illegal trail work & we encourage our members to do the same.

jayres6
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secret message received

That is a good explanation.  Thanks.

Please understand I am not in any way promoting illegal trail building.  I staunchly oppose anything that risks us (MTBers) having access to the wiss.  I suppose that PPR, as the land owners, have every right to do whatever they want to the trails, but if the trigger of this feature teardown was a small pile of rocks that they deam as "illegal trail building", then it seems like they were sending a message as opposed to just maintaing the trails.

If that's true, then I hope everyone hears it...loud and clear.

dirtmerchant
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Hey all, check out this forum

Hey all, check out this forum thread from way back in Feb 2007, right after the formation of PMBA. Looks like things havent changed much since then, almost 5 years, which is really a shame, because lots of people have devoted hundreds of hours to volunteer and work to advocate for these type things, yet they still get elimintaed by people that do not like them for whatever reason without consulting the mountain biking community... http://www.phillymtb.org/forum/logs-removed-wissahickon

Life moves on... 

Let the good times flow....  

Mark Elsasser
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Legalizing the technical trail features

I think it's important to keep in mind that most of the mountain bike specific, techincal trail features in the Wissahickon were not legally built.  Some of the techinical trail features that have been built over the past five or six years - such as a hip jump on a high speed straightaway or a four foot berm on a blind corner  - make no sense for a high volume, multi-user trail system such as the Wissahickon.  But log rides or alternate lines that may "slow riders, improve drainage, and otherwise benefit multiple uses" may be seen as a good fit for the Wissahickon. 

So why not approach FOW and PP&R with a plan to assess what's out there, with the ulitimate goal being to have some of the technical trail features legalized?  This could be a good opportunity for PMBA leadership to re-establish a working relationship with both groups.   And it would be a proactive way to address the illegal trail building issue while protecting mountain bike interests at the same time. 

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